Good, but not great

[sigma7]

Via Fark, IGN's Top Ten Villainous Moments in Comics. Yeah, they're pretty accurate, for the most part, though I was disappointed that the very first thing I thought of (Kid Miracleman) didn't make the list. Not mainstream enough, I think, but unforgettable to anyone who read it. At least Alan Moore represented on the list.

Still, despite that, I think they not only did a decent job, they'll make jim_smith happy, too, with #10.

#10 Thunderbolts Really Masters of Evil
#9 Angel's Wings Clipped
#8 Joker Cripples Barbara Gordon
#7 Magneto Rips Out Wolverine's Adamantium
#6 Doomsday Kills Superman
#5 Ozymandias Drops "Alien Menace" on New York
#4 Bane Breaks Batman's Back
#3 Bullseye Kills Elektra
#2 Death of Gwen Stacy
#1 Joker Blows Up Jason Todd

Let's see. I would've dropped #9 right off, because in terms of "lasting value," inasmuch as that's even possible in a Marvel title, he got new wings and reverted back to his old(ish) personality inside of, what, a year and a half? #7 lasted longer than I thought. #3 eventually came undone. At least Gwen's had the good grace to stay dead, alternate realities aside.

The DC events aren't perfect in terms of permanence either -- Superman's back, ditto Bats, and even Babs has been wiggling her toes lately, which just depresses the hell out of me; she's been a much greater force in the DCU since she became Oracle than she ever was as a feminine knockoff of a pre-existing male superhero. Jason Todd, though, even if he is still dead (also see Red Hood), wasn't killed by the Joker but by democracy, and honestly, I don't miss him, even if he won't go away. I'd drop this at least down to fifth and Ozymandias all the way to #1-ish. Yeah, it's not in either DC or Marvel continuity. But it's one of, if not the, greatest comic stories ever, and Veidt's decision and his master plan leading up to it is one of the reasons why. Compare the event, the raw numbers of the event, with Bruce Wayne's measley temporarily-fractured vertebrae. No contest.

But if I could put the Kid Miracleman London carnage in there, it would be #1. It had repercussions and resonance. Jason Todd? Meh. No, seriously, meh.

Comments

[jim-smith.livejournal.com]

I think the saddest part of the Angel business is that the picture they include with the piece is clearly from an appearance in the 2000s, which only reinforces that he totally recovered from everything the Marauders and Apocalypse did to him. It'd make more sense to give #9 to the Marauder Massacre as a whole, but then if we're going for mutant genocides you can't beat Cassandra Nova nuking Genosha.

[sigma7.livejournal.com]

In terms of raw numbers of fatalities, you're right. Of course, how about the Scarlet Witch's latest enchantment? While I'm not sure about how "permanent" its effects will be (inasmuch as "permanent" exists in the MU), while it's not fatalities, it does effect a greater number of pre-existing characters and not merely cannon fodder (the Morlocks were recurring but C-list at best). The only problem with crediting the Massacre would be that you'd have to note its mastermind was (sigh) Mr. Sinister, and Brucha aside, it's hard to have appreciation for him.

And yeah, I hadn't noticed the new Angel pic. I stopped reading about the time of his newly-wingedness....

[motteditor.livejournal.com]

Remember, Wanda's not evil, despite her carrying out a plot specifically aimed at her close friends. She's only mentally ill (ignore the fact said friends later plot to kill her).

It makes sense in Bendis-world.

[sigma7.livejournal.com]

Honestly, Wanda hasn't made sense to me as a character since she had the twins. That was pushing the "suspension of disbelief" window right there, and everything since has been out of left field, it seems. HoM was just over the top for me. It wasn't a story, it was a justification, and it bored me.

[motteditor.livejournal.com]

What's not to make sense (pre-Bendis idiocy)?

She had the twins, which was as much a continuation of the love story as getting married to Vision in the first place. In a comic universe, I don't understand why some have such a hard time suspending their disbelief and accepting her powers and magic allowed her to basically have a gestational pregnancy come true.

Then the characters died and -- thanks to Immortus -- she had a little mental breakdown. She got better and since has been clearly portrayed as a hero until Bendis took over. Where he changed her personality and powers, and of course did it between issues since God forbid he tell any of his story in the comics, instead of in media interviews. Since then, she makes no sense because she has nothing to do with the character that was around for 40 years, just as none of the Avengers resemble anything close to the characters they were for 40 years.

[motteditor.livejournal.com]

I don't really get the uproar about Barbara Gordon. My impression is she's not gaining any more feeling than Christopher Reeve did (IIRC, he regained some sensation in some of his extremities toward the end of his life).